Tequatl Reborn.. Rebirthed… Rehashed?

Yes, the recent update for Guild Wars to has restructured many of the larger scale encounters to provide a greater difficulty to the hordes of players that descend on them. Blackgate got the kill first, and as far as I know, only kill so far. There is a youtube video of the event for you to see how it’s done or if you’re part of over 90% of the playerbase that won’t be seeing the event completed in the near future. Whatever it is its ridiculously stupid and rather bad design for an open world boss in my opinion as they have have updated it with a lot of mechanics and features that really don’t hold up that well when placed in the open world.

  • Broken scaling.. Check

The events in GW2 have never seemed to scale as well as was claimed, the state of the dragons and how they could be killed in under a minute was proof of that but now we are kind of in the opposite position, this event doesn’t scale down apporpriately which will really harm players enjoyment of it as it isn’t a flexible encounter around the amount of players in the area. This should be a challenging encounter whether you have a group of 20 or 80.

  • Require overwhelming numbers… Check

Kind of a result of the scaling issue in many ways but serves the purpose of a) that less popular servers or timezones with less active players will be blocked from enjoying this new content; and b) that once the dust settles and the amount of players wanting to try this new encounter decrease then it just won’t be completable most of the time. It’s also extremely nice lagging to hell during these big fights… makes them so much more enjoyable.

  • Ball tactics ftw… check

A uniquely GW2 tactic in many ways that really defies logic. It is the optimal way for spreading damage out and  spreading boons and healing. It is a very popular tactic in WvW for many reasons but really lacks that tactical movement you might expect from a encounter likened to a raid. well I guess spamming skills and standing still is easy enough for people to understand

  • Severe Raid wipe mechanics… Check

To me the raid wipe mechanic just seemed a little artificial.. “oh, you failed that dps check.. now you die”. That mechanic is determined by a few factors which makes it harder to organise and prepare for at times, I would be ok with the mechanic if it was more determined by player action.. get in the bubble, interrupt this skill, stop adds from reaching the boss but this seems to punishing. Because the event is so tightly controlled within a set time frame a raid wipe pretty much means the event will fail… at least give players one chance to recover.

  • Difficulty = more heath and aoe damage… Check

The tried and True Tactic of GW2. Lets not give the boss more mechanics or skills based on player numbers just make the health exorbitant… that’s not difficult, that’s just making it tedious.

  • Needed set gear and food buffs in a game about diversity… Check

Soldiers gear and Undead buffing has almost become a requirement for fighting the dragon now. If your helping with adds on turrets and such you can still get away with whatever you want but because the Tequatl can’t be crit, and because of the condition cap it’s optimal to just stack power and then go for survivability. I guess healing power would still be an excellent stat. In a game focused (less so now with ascended gear) build diversity, restricting it for open world encounters just seems like bad planning

  • Requiring mechanics for organising large groups that Guild Wars 2 doesn’t even support… Check

The event requires large groups of players to be mostly coordinated throughout the fight. there are multiple stages, multiple points of interest that need defending, and many other mechanics to avoid or utilise. Teamspeak is almost a requirement for beating it because there are no in game methods for coordinating this amount of people effectively. The commander tag is kind of useful but, it isn’t able to direct effectively. without Teamspeak you really can’t organise where people should be at each moment, where to attack, when to buff, when to cleanse, when to heal and many other vital parts to the fight. This is where the lack of raid groups, or even guild only commander tags becomes painfully obvious.

  • Poor reward structure… Check

Would we really expect anything better, don’t want people getting of that treadmill anytime in the future. From what I saw it rewarded at pretty much the same level as it did before yet it takes a lot more players, a lot more coordination, and takes much much longer. As much as Arenanet wouldn’t want to acknowledge it they have conditioned there players now to expect extrinsic rewards, from the updates, events and living story stuff everything gives out rewards in huge chunks and this has only kept growing. Anything not deemed rewarding enough for the effort just gets forgotten, and if this dragon doesn’t give extra for the extra effort well..

  • Prognosis – won’t be played again after the month without some decent changes. I’m pretty sure there are a few other point as well that probably need addressing before but those are the main points.

From what I’ve seen so far Arenanet have always had trouble creating engaging boss type events and with making them challenging, they certainly know how to make something difficult though but that really isn’t the same thing. And here they are, pretty much making many of the same mistakes they have usually done. There must be a content difficulty level between hilariously easy and frustratingly difficult but it’s much more elusive then they thought. I love the combat system in GW2, sure it might need a bit of balancing and maybe a rework of combo effects, new skills and weapons…. but the foundation they have is extremely solid in terms of fun, enjoyment, being active, and even strategy. WvW is a lot of fun just because how the combat system is created but we don’t really see this sort of play transferred over to the PvE side very often which really is a shame.

Requiring specific key skills might actually be a start, a buff strip now and then, protective wall, portals, bubbles.. all that jazz but then there are many classes that don’t have specific skills or utilities that are unique enough to be required. One thing I thought while lookign at that fight was just how much aoe, and damage there was to deal with but not that much that was meaningful until it stacked up. I think the Aoe should be scaled down but have it more meanigful, an aoe attack that can take you down 2/3 of life or mroe for being stuck in it, actually physical attacks fromthe boss that have to be avoided; frontal cleaves.. that wave attack seemed good but all it really did was a little bit of damage and a knock back when it should hurt and players should be trying to dodge and avoid it. It’s funny that these encounters always seem to end up becoming events where you really don’t have to do, learn, or avoid anything.. all you have to do is follow the zerg.

Challenge in a fight is awareness and tactical use of skills, what we have instead is equal parts tedious and frustrating. Back to the drawing board I guess… or maybe instead of spending all this time creating new mechanics and refurbishing old encounters they could leave these alone and create an entirely new one… I’m still waiting to fight Bubbles

#GW2 #Boss

Advertisements

9 thoughts on “Tequatl Reborn.. Rebirthed… Rehashed?

  1. I disagree with most of your points here. The mechanics are a TON of fun. I know from experience that many people are really enjoying organizing/attempting the boss. It shouldn’t be done by only 20 people, it shouldn’t be done by a bunch of random people on sub-optimal gear, and it should require discipline from players to stand their ground in a ball despite constant damage (and deaths).

    Pity that this uber fun fight is UTTERLY ruined by the one point I agree with, the fact that it’s in the open world and there’s really no mechanisms for easy grouping in-game just kills it. Guilds are scattered across overflows. There’s tons of afkers and deadweight who take up space on turrets, and can’t be held accountable.

    I really believe that large, open-world encounters which are challenging but designed so players can organically organize and succeed is still a holy grail that I do applaud Anet for pursuing. “Ruined” is too strong of a word, because I don’t want to judge it yet until 2 weeks from now, when I see whether the population as a whole got better at it or not. The Karka Queen’s a great example. She’s being done about once/twice a day on most servers. Got great rewards, takes a decent amount of time/coordination for the pre-event, and has very simple mechanics which forces players to do something other than 11111 but doesn’t require excessive coordination. If Teq can be tweaked, I think it’ll be in a great place.

    -Ursan

    • Are they enjoying the organisation of it because it’s new, the novelty of a large scale open world fight or do they actually enjoy the fight as a whole. I only noticed a handful of people on ts who were enthusiastic about the whole fight… Most were just there.
      I am overly critical of it all so my opinion is far from gospel.. An outlier here.

      I do applaud them for actually trying to create large amazing open world events, even if I disagree on the themes or method at times I definitely admire the thought. I still believe it should scale better though.. 20 is an exaggeration but 80 or more is just too much.

      It could be amazing… Could, but it’s not quit there yet

      • I’m sure it’s a combination of novelty and funness. People are really enjoying the figuring out aspect of it, for sure, and there’s a certain sense of community pride in CD right now since we became the 5th US world to beat it (without help from those BGers or the Teq killers!).

        The reward is pretty sumptuous. A relatively prestigious title (I think someone calculated a 0.06% success rate so far?), a chance at ascended items, and a teq mini that’s going for 600G at the TP right now. But it’s torpedo’d by the fact that, again, organization is such a huge hassle I do agree though it’s not quite there yet…but we’ll have to wait a month or so to see how it ultimately pans out.

        -Ursan

  2. Creating scripted fights that are fun, challenging, and rewarding for each class and a wide array of builds is extraordinarily hard with the way ANet has done their class design.

    Basically, they’ve boxed themselves into a corner where they cannot expect anything from any player except the base stats for the lowest bound of levels that can access that content, an average of 1 dodge every 10 seconds, some amount of healing, access to some amount of utility skills (but no real way to assume what skills those are), and a way to do some lower boundary of damage. They cannot reasonably expect everyone to have at least X number of condition cleanses every Z seconds for example. Not without breaking some of their fundamental design goals.

    You can easily see these failures in some of the dungeon encounter designs. A good example of this is the event that used to take place before the final boss of CoF 2. The sheer amount of incoming damage and mobs meant that you either needed absurd AoE damage along with decent survivability to rapidly thin the herd of mobs to reduce that damage OR have someone who was insanely tanky to kite the bloody things. There is no place in that encounter design for a staggering amount of builds. Hell, entire classes, like thieves and mesmers, had no business being anywhere near it. Which is why the players just eventually settled on zerg rushing the damn thing from the spawn point. The whole thing was so ruinously bad that it HAD to be scraped and redone when they put in the limiter on the in-combat respawning.

    This is pretty much completely at odds with other games with similar goals. For instance, in games with explicitly supported trinity systems content designers can make more precise assumptions; they can assume everything that ANet designers can assume (except the dodges maybe) AND that any group will have at least 1 method of controlling aggro, several methods to mitigate potential damage, and a way to regain lost health. Adding even more restrictions, like more increases standard levels of survivability on gear or increasing class homogenization, increases the level of precision with which content balancing choices can be made.

    There are ways around this, but none of them are particularly elegant. What I expect they’ll eventually do is make a new kind of bundle that replaces your utility skills instead of your weapon skills and you’ll gain access to them at various points in the fights. Which is just The Oculus Problem all over again, just writ small. Still probably better, from a development resources standpoint, than completely redoing the skill system or introducing roles.

    • My take on Teq is closer to J3w3l’s than Ursan’s. My feeling, having done it once (and lost, of course), was “that was fun but I don’t think I want to do it again”.

      I preferred the old Teq. That was fun to me, every time. Much more fun than this ever will be, even if it does turn out that people learn how to do it and win reliably. It seems to me that, as usual, the squeaky wheel gets the grease. Yes, a lot of self-appointed arbiters of “how things should be” did make a lot of noise about various World Bosses being “boring”. ANet listened to them so let’s hope those people are happy.

      If people are still doing this in numbers a month from now it will be because of the lure of 600g minis, not because of the innate entertainment value of the event, the way people throw Exotics down the Mystic Toilet in search of a precursor. That’s not fun, either, but people grit their teeth and do it.

      • Just to clarify, I ultimately think old Teq, with the added megalaser phase and the new stomp-wave-jump-over mechanic (but no ridiculous AoE and hp) would’ve been SUPER fun for me personally.

        But there’s something to be said about the immense satisfaction of beating something that others can’t. Yea, some people won’t like it, but I think it’s very fair that the dragon bosses be “challenging,” while the other dozen or so world bosses remain “easy.”

        And come now, this is an MMO, where players repeat content constantly. Innate entertainment alone won’t motivate most people to repeat the same content dozens, and even hundreds of times.

        -Ursan

      • yeh that sounds like a better change, a reasonable level of health so it takes 10 minutes instead of 1 or 20 would make it fun and engaging. The thing is, people only get that sense of satisfaction from beating difficult things the first time and unless there is some kind of reward people are unlikely to continue doing it.

      • the old Teq wasn’t that fun to me either, it was a pinata. It definitely needed an upgrade, new mechanics and the ability to deal with larger groups but I don’t think this is what people were asking for. I think we all love being arm chair developers and arguing how things should have been done.. it’s part of the fun =)

    • sadly yes, they really did program themselves into a corner with the combat system and expectations of encounters. I never thought there was anything inherently wrong with expecting players to alter their strategies and gear to suit any specific instanced encounter but i don’t expect that to happen large scale in the open world.

      There are a lot of variables to deal with but I also think that could work to their advantage for fights like this. You could expect there will a guardian or mesmer with reflect walls and such; you can expect a bit of aegis and many other boons; you can expect a lot of conditions for instance; and, you can even expect a LOT of cc type abilities but I think they are afraid to expect things of players even though that could be a reasonable avenue as well.

      The combat system is deeper than most would think although the rabbit hole doesn’t go as far as I would like.I think a problem they would have with this route is the balancing of classes so that each class has a few abilities that are unique, large scale and usefull.

Comments are closed.